Monique, Don Arbas dhe ju të tjerët që besoni në fantazi dhe të ngjashme. Profesor të ndryshëm janë pyetur për këtë çështje dhe kanë dhënë përgjigje si më poshtë, që po i postoj në anglisht, në origjinal për të mos i humbur kuptimin e tyre. Nuk e kam ndërmënd të replikoj me në këtë temë sepse bisedat me fotografi më turbullojnë lukthin.
Le të bëjmë një bisedë virtuale:
Ju thoni: Fotografia është helikopter.
Profesorët thonë:
"We dealt with this on the AEL discussion list over a year ago. There is a much more mundane explanation (that is historically interesting in itself). These pictures have gained some notoriety because they have been promoted by "new-age or ufo buffs ". Egyptologists easily recognise that the apparent strange craft are just illusions produced by:
a) erosion of the stone surface (look at the damage over that roof area!)
b) a process of re-carving and filling in the stone to replace some of the hieroglyphs. When the filling falls out bits of the old and new glyphs overlap and form 'strange signs'. The technical term used is 'palimpsest'.
Anyone well versed in egyptological inscriptions would tell you lots of recarving of inscriptions went on in ancient egypt as ruling kings sought to acquire the work of previous pharaohs, or to discredit them. Regards, Mike Dyall-Smith"
Profesor, ekspert nga universiteti i Melburn.
":..., I am afraid that you have been subjected to the famous "Abydos helicopter" mania, here. There is a simple explanation to what you are seeing, at least, as we see it in Egyptology. There is no mystery here; it's just a _palimpsest_ (though without the use of that term, and which is defined as "... A manuscript, typically of papyrus or parchment, that has been written on more than once, with the earlier writing incompletely erased and often legible" AHED). It was decided in antiquity to replace the five-fold royal titulary of Seti I with that of his son and successor, Ramesses II. In the photos, we clearly see "Who repulses the Nine Bows," which figures in some of the Two-Ladies names of Seti I, replaced by "Who protects Egypt and overthrows the foreign countries," a Two-Ladies name of Ramesses II. With some of the plaster that once covered Seti I's titulary now fallen away, certain of the superimposed signs do indeed look like a submarine, etc., but it'sjust a coincidence.
What is happening in the photographs is quite clear; just consult Juergen von Beckerath, Handbuch der aegyptischen Koenigsnamen, Muenchner aegyptologische Studien 20, pages 235 and 237.
This issue comes up from time to time on such academic e-mail lists as the Ancient Near East (ANE) List and so on, so we're all pretty familiar with it. Regards. Katherine Griffis-Greenberg"
Member, American Research Center in Egypt
International Association of Egyptologists
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Special Studies
The strange hieroglyphs are the result of a recutting of the texts - the original signs were covered in plaster, and new ones cut into the surface. This plaster has now fallen out, leaving images that look rather like modern items!
Local guides make up all kinds of mysteries about them, but there is a very simple explanation!
Aidan Dodson
University of Bristol
If you take a look at the second image, that gives the context of the "mystery text", you will notice that the text is written in sunken relief (signs are carved in the stone). If you compare that to the first image (the detail), you will see that it is in raised relief (signs are lying on the stone). In the first image, the stone looks more like copper or bronze then like stone.
Compare in the first image the sign that looks like a helicopter to the corresponding sign in the second image. You will see that they are not completely the same. The sign in the second image shows three hills and doesn't look like a helicopter. The three sets of three strokes in the second image are not entirely alike to the first image either.
The second image allows us to identify the text as part of the titulary of Ramesses II and can be translated as "The one of the Two Ladies, who surpresses the nine foreign countries".
Conclusion: the first image has been tampered with. It is a hoax, a fake, a fraude. The person who created this fake didn't even take the time to cover his tracks and left some very obvious traces of his "work".
Kind regards,
Jacques Kinnaer.
The Ancient Egypt Site:
http://www.geocities.com/~amenhotep/
Don't waste your time and (please) mine with such stupidities !
Nicolas Grimal (egjiptolog i famshëm)
My primitive computer cannot 'open' your graphics so I cannot help you. However, in your message you say that a hieroglyph at the Temple of Abydos looks like a helicopter.
In my opinion, it is a mistake to approach scholars with a conclusion like that. If it looks like a helicopter to you, where are the jet fighters? You might be more successful in eliciting an aswer if you ask: Look, I found an unusual hieroglyph. Can you help me decipher it?
Perhaps if you know the location of this hieroglyph in Abydos, I can find it on photographs or books. You are welcome to E-mail me its location.
Daniel M. Kolos and Benben Books deal with both academic Egyptology and certain fringe research which promises to
challenge current thoughts.
Daniel M.Kolos (egjiptolog)
Unfortunately I cannot see your glyphs but I know them (have seen them atAbydos), but I will let others take care of this, people who have time. They are cut over glyphs, if I recall correctly, nothing of the UFO.
Susan Tower Hollis
Center Director/Associate Dean
Central New York Center, SUNY ESC
What appears to be a "helicopter" is actually an example of two groups of hieroglyphs carved one on top of the other. The words psd.t "the ennead of nine" and X3s.wt "foreign countries" seems to have been carved one ob top of the other. Clearly the artist / craftsman changed the hieroglyphs (perhaps from the change of kings Sety I to Ramesses II). The actual "helicopter" seems to be a portion of the psd.t sign and the X3s.t sign on top of each other with portions erased.
Hope this helps.
Eugene Cruz-Uribe
Associate Dean
College of Social and Behavioral Sciences
Northern Arizona University
I did not receive any "examples" of the supposed strange hieroglyphs appended to your inquiry. I can assure you that the Abydos temple has been intensely studied, copied and published and no unusual hieroglyphs are known, only unlearned interpretations perhaps misconstrue what is being shown.
Barbara Lesko
Brown University
I am very sorry, but there is no helicopter or whatever in Seti I's temple at Abydos! As I said then, I can say again: it is a perfectly clear case of an ancient correction of a text which may now to a non-egyptologist look like a helicopter. It is very common in tombs and temples that the original hieroglyphs were changed and then the first text covered by some kind of paste which has now disappeared so we can see part of the first text below the newer one.
Tine Bagh
Carsten Niebuhr Institute
University of Copenhagen
PثRGJIGJE Mث Tث MIRث NUK BESOJ Qث GJENI.
TUNG E KENI
